Michael Shermer Tries to Ban My Book; Demands I Recant!

Me and Shermer at the '94 IHR conference

I’ve known little Mikey Shermer since 1993. I tell many interesting stories about this “skeptic” fraud in my book, Republican Party Animal (available from Amazon, Walmart, and Barnes & Noble in the US, Waterstones and Foyles in the UK, Indigo/Chapters in Canada…but enough self-promotion).

Shermy got wind of the fact that I include quite a few pages of conversations that I recorded with him in 1994 – conversations in which he admits to defaming me and lying about my work regarding Holocaust revisionism. So, what did “Mr. Freethinker” do? How did “America’s leading skeptic and defender of free inquiry” respond?

He got his lawyers to serve my publisher with a demand to “refrain from publishing or distributing” my book! This is a man who slams religious institutions for stifling free inquiry and suppressing facts. And he wants to ban a book.

That’s some great skepticizin’ there, Mikey.

Oh, and one other thing…along with the “cease and desist” order the lawyers sent to my publisher, they sent me one as well, with a pre-written statement of recantation that I was supposed to read publicly on Youtube.

Yes, that’s right. Shermy the “skeptic,” Shermy the “scientist,” had his lawyers try to force me to recant publicly. Oh, and just for the record, Shermaboy’s actual field is “history of science.” So, a science “historian” saw no irony in trying to force a person to publicly recant their sincerely-held views. Shermer’s knowledge of science history must be as firm as his grasp of Holocaust history.

Anyway, Mikey’s law firm was no match for me. In a matter of hours, they retreated like that mangy dog that got its ass kicked by a cat a few weeks ago. I’m a drunk, but even ten vodkas to the wind, I’m a hell of a lot smarter than Shermer and his paid suits. I’ll just lay everything out below, exactly as it happened, and you can enjoy seeing “Mr. Skeptic” get pantsed.

And I do hope you enjoy!

From the venerable law firm of Neufeld Marks, to my publisher (this is just a screenshot of the top of page one, so that you may properly identify the fine legal minds who attempted the book banning):

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Neufeld1

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Here’s the specific demand:

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Neufeld2

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And here’s their demand to me, that I read this recantation on Youtube like a POW at the Hanoi Hilton forced to “confess” for the cameras:

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Neufeld3

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And now the fun starts. Here’s my email to Jennifer MikoLevine, the attorney who wrote the letters:

Dear Ms. MikoLevine,

I cannot tell you how pleased I was to receive your email, and to read the one you sent to my publisher. The fact that Mikey Shermer would resort to using a law firm to demand that a book be censored (as per your email to my publisher, in which you demand that he “immediately refrain from publishing or distributing Republican Party Animal”) is golden. Seriously – it’s a birthday gift. I’m glad Shermer recognizes how badly his own words, in the recorded conversations that are transcribed in the book, make him look.

By trying to get the book pulled your client is essentially saying, “yep – I said some very damaging things, and I don’t want anyone to read them.” I’m sure everyone, from skeptics to Creationists, from atheists to believers, from 9/11 truthers to global warming doubters, will appreciate the fact that Mikey Shermer is demanding that a book be pulled from the marketplace merely because it contains transcripts of his own words.

That’s some great “freethought” there, Mikey.

Now, out of respect for you, coming – as I do – from a very long line of lawyers – I will address the points you made in your email to me. I will leave it to my publisher to address the points you made in your email to him. The words and ideas expressed in this email represent only my opinion and not that of Feral House Publishing.

To begin with, yes, in 1994, I did record several phone conversations with Michael Shermer without his consent. I announced that fact publicly at the September 1994 Institute for Historical Review conference in Orange County, California. Shermer admitted to being aware of the existence of the recordings in an “open letter to revisionists” he circulated in March 1995.

If Mikey had desired to take any legal action, by filing criminal charges or initiating a civil case, he’s had almost twenty years to do so. The statute of limitations for criminal or civil action regarding the illegal recording of a phone call in California has long run out. As a lawyer, I’m sure you’re aware that in such matters, in California, the statute of limitations time period begins when the aggrieved party learns of the existence of the recordings.

Time has long run out.

Beyond that, I’m certain that you, as a lawyer, know that there is an exception to the California law regarding the non-consensual recording of a phone conversation. One is allowed to record a “confidential communication” for the purpose of obtaining evidence “reasonably believed” to relate to the commission, by another party, of violence against the person doing the recording. The person accused or suspected of the violence need not be the person being recorded. The recording need only be made with the reasonable belief that it might be relevant in some way to felonious violence against the person doing the recording.

When I recorded Shermer in 1994, he had falsely and publicly accused me of being a “racist” (his term), and this false accusation had helped ramp up the Jewish Defense League’s “reward offer” for my death (several months after Shermer’s lies about me were published, I was badly beaten while walking back from a grocery store). I therefore “reasonably believed,” in good faith, that I had a legitimate interest in obtaining evidence in which Shermer admitted to me that he had lied about me being a racist, and that he had publicly misrepresented my work.

In the audio tapes I recorded, Shermer does indeed admit that his “racist” claim was false, and that he had publicly misrepresented my work.

Still, I think that’s all moot because of the statute of limitations running out so long ago. But all the same, out of respect to you, I felt it was only right for me to offer that additional explanation. You’re welcome.

Come after me if you desire. I fear Michael Shermer and his lawyers as much as I fear a hangnail. But we both know that rule number one of being a good lawyer is, “feel free to file suits you know you can’t win.” Because sometimes winning isn’t the objective; intimidation is. So come on, let’s go a few rounds. Let’s see how those intimidation tactics work on me.

Regarding your ridiculous claim that I “defamed” Shermer, how can I defame someone with their own words? If I’m playing recorded audio of Shermer speaking, and if I haven’t altered the audio in any deceptive manner, how can that be defamation? If Shermer believes that the audio defames him, he needs to hire your firm to bring a case against himself. I’d think that would be a beneficial thing for Neufeld Marks – one client, double billing. And you’re guaranteed a victory one way or the other.

Also, and here’s where you’re being a patronizing little pest, Jenn, you know perfectly well (or at least I hope to God you do) that Shermer is a public figure and therefore if I have a sincere belief that he is a fraud who betrays the supposedly “scientific” principles he claims to espouse, I can say so, and he has no course of action. I have been saying that Mikey Shermer is a fraud for twenty years. There is no question that this is a belief I hold sincerely and in good faith.

A judge wouldn’t let a defamation suit regarding my use of the word fraud in regard to Shermy get past your first billing session (which would probably still make the filing worth your firm’s time).

So, putting aside all of the areas in which you simply have no case, let me interject a small bit of what I like to call “lawyer Kryptonite:” ethics. I understand that I just made you shudder by the use of that word, and I apologize.

When it comes to “defamation,” it is I who would have had multiple reasons to bring an action against Shermy. I chose not to. I despise the notion of going to a court of law, because I hate wearing suits and getting up early. Oh, and I also prefer a society in which people can freely lie about me, to one in which speech, any speech, is penalized.

But hey, that’s just me.

Shermer knows full well that the term “racist” is the modern-day equivalent of calling someone a “witch” in the Middle Ages. He knows the consequences that can come from the false use of that term. Here’s a small, VERY small, sampling from those dreaded audio tapes that are transcribed in my book:

<start>

Me: “You say [in the Skeptic Magazine article], ‘revisionists like Weber, Zundel, Irving, Cole, and Smith have tried to convince me they are not racists and have no political agendas, but they have been contradicted from within their own ranks.’ But then you don’t go on to explain anything, any kind of ‘contradiction,’ about me, even though you just included me in that grouping.”

Shermer: “Yeah, I was sorta lumping everyone I had covered in the article . . .”

Me: “But that’s not fair to me.”

Shermer: “Yeah, that’s true. That’s right.”

Me: “I mean, you don’t think I’m racist . . .”

Shermer: “No, I don’t.”

Me: “But, you do understand that that might give the impression I am, for people who read it who don’t know me . . .”

Shermer: “Yeah, yeah . . . it would.”

Me: “I mean, honestly, that’s not really fair to me, is it?”

Shermer: “I would agree.”

Me: “That it wasn’t fair to me.”

Shermer: “Right.”

<end>

And right there, ol’ Shermy cops to defamation, Jenn.

When I emailed Sherm last summer, as I was researching my book, we had this fascinating exchange, on 8/17/13, published in full in my book:

<start>

From me:

Hi Mike,

It’s the guy you never get tired of attacking, David Cole. I’ve been keeping up with this whole rape accusation thing, and, of course, I have no special knowledge beyond what I’ve read. But, and here’s the reason I’m writing to you, I’m just damn, terribly curious. And curiosity is good, right, Mike? So here’s my curiosity. Has this experience, you know, the whole rape accusation thing, made you any more sympathetic, or perhaps given you a bit more empathy, regarding the things you said about me? How you branded me a “racist” (the modern equivalent of calling someone a “witch”). How you admitted you lied. And how you refused to retract your accusation even after admitting you lied.

So I’m interested in asking you if your current dilemma has perhaps birthed in you some small regret for having lied about me.

I have no knowledge of the truth or lack thereof regarding the accusations made against you. If they’re true, there is no punishment that is too harsh for you. But if they’re false, well . . . it kinda stinks having folks print lies about you, huh? Is this a “chickens coming home to roost” moment for Dr. Michael Shermer?

Shermer’s reply:

Hi David,

Thank you for the frank and forthright letter. To cut to the chase and answer your question, yes the libelous and defamatory comments being made about me has (sic) made me more sympathetic and understanding to how I have interacted with creationists, Holocaust revisionists, New Age gurus like Deepak Chopra, and others, and in fact, all of the people I have debated with in all of these fields have been, for the most part, unfailingly polite to me and far more thoughtful and reasonable than any of the people in the FTB/athiest [sic] community and how they have treated me.

I don’t think you are a racist David, and I’m sorry for the things I said about you.

So, yeah David, the chickens have come home to roost, so please accept my apology for some of the things I said about you.

<end>

You’re bettin’ on the wrong horse, Jenn. Your client is an admitted defamer. Did they teach you about the “clean hands doctrine” in law school? Sherm probably would not fare well bringing a defamation suit against me.

I’ve saved the best for last. You actually, and I assume with a straight face, printed up a statement that you and Dr. Shermer “demand” I read verbatim on Youtube.

Are you and Shermer clinically insane? Writing up a “recantation” and demanding that I read it on camera as though these are my own thoughts and opinions? Is this the Hanoi Hilton? Okay, you’re a lawyer, Jenn. You might not know history. But Sherm claims to be both a scientist and a historian. Surely, he must be aware of how bad it will look for a so-called skeptic, scientist, and “freethinker” to demand that someone with whom he disagrees be forced, under threat of legal action, to publicly read a pre-written statement of recantation in which the threatened party is told what to say, is ordered to say it verbatim, and is threatened with repercussions if he doesn’t publicly recant his sincerely held views.

As I said, you’re an attorney. I don’t expect you to know how bad it looks for a “scientist” to order someone to publicly read a pre-written statement of recantation under threat of dire consequences. But Shermer should know. He should know the connotations and historical baggage associated with forced recantations. This is not going to make him look good.

But let’s examine the statement you and Shermer demand I read:

<start>

Dr. Shermer demands that you issue a retraction of the Entries on Youtube as follows:

“I hereby retract the entries posted on May 7, 2014, entitled David Cole Presents Dr. Michael Shermer: the Unauthorized Video (Part I) and David Cole Presents Dr. Michael Shermer: the Unauthorized Video (Part II). Specifically, I hereby retract all statements, quotations, and comments therein made with respect to Dr. Shermer, and the references to and transcripts and recordings of phone calls between myself, my friend, and Dr. Shermer. I extend my apologies to Dr. Shermer and to any other party affected by the statements, quotations, comments, and recordings contained in the entries.”

<end>

You want me to “retract” my “statements and comments” regarding Dr. Shermer. In other words, you want me to read a pre-written statement in which I retract my sincerely-held beliefs. You want to force me to read a statement in which I mindlessly repeat words you put in my mouth, words that betray my true feelings about Shermer.

And amazingly, it gets worse. Because you also call on me to “retract” the “transcripts and recordings of phone calls between myself and Dr. Shermer.”

What? How can I “retract” transcripts and recordings of Shermer’s own words? Do you actually know the definition of retract? “To say that something you said or wrote is not true or correct.” How can I “retract” Shermer’s words? How is that even possible? It makes no sense. “Retracting” another man’s words? It’s impossible.

Believing in Bigfoot riding the Loch Ness Monster while Martians controlled by the preserved head of Elvis in a Mayan space capsule drop unicorn kill-bots on planet earth makes more sense than believing that any man can “retract” another man’s words.

This is shameful. You should be ashamed. Shermer should be ashamed. And soon you will both be publicly shamed.

By your own words.

Which you will probably then demand I “retract.”

Kindest Regards,

David Cole (Stein)

And here is her reply. I hope she’s not an advocate of gun control, because the bullets she’s sweating surely surpass California’s ammunition regulations:

Dear Mr. Cole,

Our letters to you and Feral House were premised on our understanding that Dr. Shermer’s phone conversations were recorded without his knowledge or consent, and that he only discovered their existence last week.  Your e-mail below, however, references an “open letter to revisionists” Dr. Shermer allegedly circulated in March 1995.  As our investigation into this matter is ongoing, we would appreciate your forwarding a copy of that letter if it is currently in your possession.

Yours truly,

Jennifer MikoLevine

My reply:

Very happy to oblige, Jennifer. Here is a link, preserved at the anti-revisionist site Nizkor Project, to Shermer’s March 1995 “Open  Letter to Holocaust Revisionists:” http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/s/shermer.michael/open-letter

The second paragraph is the relevant one.

Also, check out this archived entry, from July 1995: http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/c/cole.david/cole-to-mccarthy-950620

Go to page 4. I quote a document from Shermer in which he admits knowing about my concerns regarding my safety BEFORE he publicly and falsely called me a racist. He knew the dangers BEFORE he defamed me. And he confirms that those  dangers were foremost on my mind at the time.

Shermer knew of my concerns for my physical safety before he defamed me in 1994, and I had a reasonable belief that I was preventing additional violent acts from being committed against me by obtaining proof that Shermer lied about his claim that I am a “racist.”

Best Regards,

David

And Sherm-Sherm throws in the towel:

Dear Mr. Cole and Mr. Parfrey,

In light of this information, Dr. Shermer does not plan to pursue legal action with respect to you or Feral House at this time.

Yours truly,

Jennifer MikoLevine

At this point, I was ready to move on. I won, Shermy lost, end of story. But the day before the cease and desist letters were sent, Sherm filed a “privacy complaint” to get the video in which I speak about my history with him removed from Youtube. Unlike copyright infringement complaints, which can be easily fought, privacy complaints are damn near impossible to reverse on Youtube. This category of complaint was created to keep bullies from posting the private information of teenage girls. So Shermer, acting like a teen girl, used this category of complaint to get my video removed.

And the basis for his “privacy complaint?” I held up the covers of his books to the camera. As you can see in the screenshot of the actual complaint, for seventeen seconds, from the 5:21 mark in the video to the 5:38 mark, “Michael Shermer books shown in video:”

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ShermerComplaint

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Yes, the books that have been available for years at hundreds of stores around the world constitute a “privacy violation” simply because I held them up to the camera. I did not open them, I did not read from them, I did not even REVIEW them. I just held up the covers (and, to be fair, I’m written about a LOT in each of those books…don’t I have a right to TOUCH the damn things?).

Michael Shermer, accused rapist, abused a Youtube policy meant to protect teen girls from bullies. What a guy!

As I said, Youtube doesn’t allow an appeals process for privacy complaints. So the video is gone, for good. But here’s the audio of a conversation I referenced in that video:

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I will have more to say about cowardly accused rapist phony skeptic lying fraud Michael Shermer next week.

Honestly, I really was going to walk away after beating his lawyers like rented mules. I never like to pile on after a successful thrashing. But getting my Youtube videos pulled because Shermer abused a policy meant to protect thirteen-year-old girls? Now, I’m pissed. Now, I’m only getting started on that sweaty-browed phony.

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Comments
49 Responses to “Michael Shermer Tries to Ban My Book; Demands I Recant!”
  1. The-WC says:

    You should put the video up on liveleak or something, it will increase the views 10 fold rather than just having the audio here.

    In a future video can you address why you left the Donahoe show during the break? “We have lost our friend David Cole”.

    Can you also upload the episode of 60 minutes you were on if you have it? Those videos are not available on youtube.

    Thanks, looking forward to buying your book and wish you the best.

  2. Syd Walker says:

    Nice one David.

    The role that ‘Court Skeptics’ play in our (allegedly) Post-Enlightenment world should not be under-estimated.

    I blogged a little piece a few years ago about Michael Shermer and some of his little echoes:(we have a guy in Australia called Phillip Adams who’s cast in similar mold).

    See ‘Fake Sceptics, Real Sceptics & Joe Lieberman: Ultimate Sceptic’ at http://sydwalker.info/blog/2010/12/28/joe-lieberman-ultimate-sceptic/

    I hope Joe isn’t one of your old buddies by the way. Never thought of him as a ‘Party Animal’, but God (and possibly you?) knows what these guys get up to in their time off :-)

  3. Clem says:

    you are an awesome drunk and I love you. My copy of your book arrives tomorrow and that makes me very happy. Try trutube as well.

  4. Basia and Pia says:

    It seems sad that people now want to re-write history and claim it did not happen. My father who was NOT Jewish was interred from 1940 to 1945. He went from Oranienburg to Sachsenhausen to Dachau. His crime. He was a medical doctor who treated people. For that he was branded being a Juden und Polan gehandler. (purveyer-handler of Jewish and Polish flesh). He was lucky. He survived- one of only 2 medical doctors to do so.

    So if the concentration camps did not exist, where was he. Why were there films/photos of him in c.c. garb? Most of all why did the German government acknowledge what was done to him….if it NEVER HAPPENED?
    signed
    B.D.S.

    • The-WC says:

      Gosh you have no idea what you are saying. Who said concentration camps didn’t exist? No one. You are working yourself up into a frenzy but dont have the capacity to comprehend anything.

      Your father was in a concentration camp but do you know it was a death camp? Did he see any gas chambers?

      Stop making false arguments and maybe actually read the book or listen to even 2 minutes of what Mr. Cole is saying please.

    • David says:

      How is it possible that your father was imprisoned at Oranienburg, Sachsenhausen, and Dachau between 1940 and 1945, when Oranienburg closed in 1936? And, being a medical doctor was not a crime in Nazi Germany, nor was treating Polish or Jewish patients; ask Elie Wiesel about his father’s stay in the Birkenau infirmary.

    • Jonathan says:

      Holocaust revisionists don’t deny the existence of concentration camps. You need to actually know the position of revisionists before trying to debate them.

  5. Babidi says:

    This is why I purchased your book. Good on Feral House for taking risks in publishing, and good on retailers like Amazon for stocking these books in spite of shitheads like Shermer. I’m not even sure of what else to say other than that I think it’s fucking hilarious when you spank somebody’s bottom raw.

    Shame that skepticism, having become a culture unto itself, seems to have developed a few sacred cows of its own, effectively having lost meaning in the Western world. What kind of a skeptic veers on the side caution in the face of truths, or just plain doubt (does this make me a hypocrite for using an anonymous e-mail? well, I’m not publishing skeptic magazines)? It is difficult to see the self-proclaimed skeptic, who has made it a facet of his whole being, as anything other than a wimp in this case. Guess what, folks? You’re not “heretics” arguing the heliocentric model in risk of being burned at the stake. You argue only that which is well established in Universities and scientific journals, with the only risk being angry e-mails from dwindling religious boomers.

    To “Basia and Pia,” you are retarded. Did you read revisionist and get in such a rage you had to immediately respond? Cole/Stein has never denied existence of concentration camps. Where the hell do you think he was when he was filming them, and explicitly referring to them as concentration camps? I don’t think a single soul denies evidence of concentration camps. They used to be common, and most likely, your father had political inclinations which were considered a threat to the German state. Or perhaps he was just a Slav and interned for, you know, the same reason Japanese were in the US?

  6. Joe Rizoli says:

    Great response to this Shermer incident. When I saw his interview on the holocaust I was sickened saying is this guy for real? These jerks need to be exposed and you did it rather nicely. David, you got a great honest way you deal with people, I love it.

  7. Zan Overall says:

    I used to set up placards offering evidence that Shermer’s “beliefs” were ridiculous where his “congregation” would have to pass them on their way to his “services” at Cal Tech. I called the area “The Gauntlet of Truth.”
    I sent him this open letter a few years ago.

    An Open Letter to The Skeptics Society

    Why do you call yourselves “Skeptics?”

    “Devoted Defenders of the Paradigm”
    would be more accurate.

    Skeptics are intellectual rebels who
    challenge the views of those in authority,
    often risking reputation, livelihood and
    sometimes life itself.
    In every instance I am aware of,
    The Skeptics Society comes down on the
    side of authority, risking nothing!

    A Skeptics Society member teaching English
    Lit somewhere risks nothing agreeing with
    his department head that the “man from
    Stratford” wrote the plays and poems.

    A Skeptics Society member teaching psychology
    risks nothing agreeing that intelligence is a
    function of a material body and expires with
    that body.

    A Skeptics Society member risks nothing
    at a cocktail party by decrying Intelligent
    Design and “going way out on a limb” in
    defense of the Theory of Evolution.

    Do you so-called “skeptics” ever stick
    your necks out?

    I hear you saying, “We can’t help it if they
    finally got the paradigm right and we
    recognized the fact!”

    That’s what they all say—in every era
    about every paradigm.

    It just came to me! You are skeptical
    about one thing. You are skeptical about
    skepticism.

    If you had lived in his day, you would have
    been heaping up faggots and arguing over
    the privilege of applying the torch to
    Giordano Bruno, a skeptic worthy of the name.

    Zan Overall, The Skeptics’ Skeptic.

  8. B Thermin says:

    Another loser jumping on the holocaust denial bandwagon to make money from the gullible idiots in the world who think that history is a lie they have been told so others, Jews as they contend, can make money out it. Yet here you are doing exactly that you hypocrite. I know plenty of Germans who worked in these camps and attest to their existence and that yes, Jews were gassed as well as shot, and hanged by the millions all across Europe. You Americans are sickening as you will do and say anything to make money. Fast forward this to 47.05 and listen to what this es=x SS officer who worked at Auschwitz has to say and hang your heads in shame you disgusting pigs His job was counting the money stolen from the Jews who were gassed and burnt there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz9TF_IXmG8 B Thermin, Berlin

    • Jimmy says:

      “money stolen from the Jews” …… Really? Are you referring to the camp script that was used to pay the laborers in the work camps? There’s not one shred of evidence that Jews were gassed in “homicidal gas chambers”. Common sense would tell you that nobody in their right mind would spend the money to build all of these camps for the sole purpose of gassing Jews. IF extermination was the intent, a simple hole dug by bulldozers and a bullet to the head would have sufficed. And would have been a lot cheaper too. You know, like the Katyn massacre? And we all know the mass grave theory was also proven to be a hoax too. Its very telling that you come to this site to claim “holocau$t denial when the post itself has absolutely NOTHING to do with the holocau$t. You … Mr “B Vermin” are a Hasbara troll. Some of us know all about you and your type. I bet you are from East Berlin IF you really are from Berlin. Go back to the communist country where you belong. People here aren’t buying your propaganda. Please read “The Transfer Agreement” while you’re at it. Its very enlightening.

      • Arthur Crump says:

        I’ve just read about the Transfer Agreement and it states between 1933-1936 60,000 Jews resettled in Palestine. So what are you trying to prove?
        Don’t tell me, Hitler loved the Jews so much he wanted to whisk them all away in order that they escaped his persecution in later years? What a hero.

    • Iris says:

      One name with proof

  9. k0nsl says:

    Hi Mr. Cole,

    Could you possibly give me the links for the Shermer videos, both of them, perhaps by uploading to your server. If you do that, I can download them and put them on my blog. Because right now it only leads to dead YouTube entries (courtesy of Mr. Shermer).

    I would truly be thankful if you could oblige.

    Faithfully,
    Kuensl

  10. Ha, ha, nice work!

    I ran into Shermer at a psychedelic drug conference in San Francisco and urged him to do a Skeptic article on the Holohoax. I told him all about the impracticality/impossibility of the alleged murder weapon and logistics of cremating thousands of corpses. None of that ever made it into his articles and books.

    Mikey said he never took psychedelic drugs but one of his associates has, I told him many famous/smart people have tried LSD.

    Look forward to reading your book

  11. Steven Stern says:

    Thanks for the Michael Shermer story. That was hilarious. Thanks for sharing it with us.

  12. Alphonso says:

    B Thermin – If you truly believe in what you write then all I can say is that you have been thoroughly brainwashed. There are 2 sides to every story. Try watching the documentaries here – http://codoh.com/library/categories/1167/ And then ask yourself why is it a criminal offence to publicly express doubt about holocaust claims in over a dozen countries in Europe? What type of “truth” needs to be protected by the law?

    • Arthur Crump says:

      After Mr Thermin has asked himself that particular question, maybe you can ask ( but probably not answer correctly) yourself these questions –

      1) Why do you use CODOH as a link to prove ‘censorship’ issues when CODOH are guilty of heavy censorship themselves. IE Anyone who starts asking them awkward questions is either banned or their posts are removed or tampered with.

      2) If you say ‘expressing Holocaust doubt’ is a criminal offence in certain countries, how come it isn’t an offence in USA, which no doubt someone like you believes to be Israel’s biggest bitch and by rights should be the first country to enforce such laws. Cos come on, Israel and ‘da Jews’ call all the shots in the US don’t they?

      I personally believe Holocaust deniers should have their own TV programme, where we can all watch them make fools of themselves as they try and debate against normal, well educated, scholarly type historians . It could be put on the Comedy Channel, hosted by the 3 Davids – Cole, Duke and Irving. (Or should that be 4 – including Stein) LMAO !!!

      • Babidi says:

        1) Couldn’t comment on that. Never heard or visited CODOH before.

        2) I don’t understand your point here. Are you suggesting expressing Holocaust doubt ISN’T a criminal offense in certain countries? Because it factually is – deal with it. So why isn’t it criminal offense to express said Holocaust doubt in the U.S.? You’re not very bright, are you? That is because the people who drafted our constitution were principled and with decent foresight. While there are people now who would like to hamper our rights guaranteed to us in the first amendment, you know, free speech, it is still regarded highly, and can indeed keep us from imprisonment. Western European countries do not have this privilege. As Cole expresses in his book, there is a great irony in a nation like Germany jailing so-called fascists to remain … not fascistic?

        I implore you to actually read his book, that way you can avoid these ill informed posts you make. Seriously. If you don’t want to give Cole money, it’s already available secondhand on Amazon’s market place. Or wait about another week and get a PDF version from a file hosting site.

        We can see eye to eye on your last point though. There absolutely should be an open forum that is televised and can host these debates (and many, many others). But again, if you actually READ his book, you would see the last time revisionism was being highly publicized (during the Zundel trial in Canada), it totally backfired on the thick headed like yourself, as questions of gas chambers, etc. were making the headlines as respected historians in the Holocaust field were being cross examined. And why lump Cole with someone like Duke? Cole mentions flat out in his book he has Zionist views, and refers to having family from Israel. Are you so intellectually lazy that your worldview is black and white?

        You might also find it interesting that Cole devotes several paragraphs to an Orthodox Jewish rabbi, an esteemed professor at an Israeli University, who fully welcomed Holocaust revisionism. From the perspective that, if nothing else, it could only strengthen understanding of this period in history (hey, that kinda sounds like the open correspondence we agreed on). By your dumbass logic even this character, undoubtedly smarter than you and with a greater grasp on this subject than you have, is a mirror image of Duke.

        Kill yourself.

        • Arthur Crump says:

          How strange, one of David Stole’s disciples proclaims he has never heard of CODOH. PAHAHAHAHA yeah right!
          And what’s this other bullshit you have written – Quote ” Western European countries don’t have this privilege” !! What, you mean UK and Ireland? Denmark? Norway? Sweden? Italy?
          Oh sorry, have I missed something here ? Is expressing doubt about the holocaust ‘illegal’ in these countries too??
          The point I was making, but clearly misunderstood by yourself, was that if we take the typical stance of most deniers/Nazis/thickos/weirdos/conspirasists etc that ‘Da Jews’ control the western world, especially good ol USA, then don’t you find it strange that out of all the countries that have these anti denial laws, that USA isn’t one of them??
          Or put it another way, those of you who subscribe to Conspiracy Weekly ( if you’ve still got enough money left after purchasing your supply of weed) , do you also find it strange how out the main 4 countries who were , in denier land, responsible for the ‘hoax’ and therefore manipulated by evil Zionist forces, only one of these countries have these laws in operation too????
          Obviously I can only assume you hold the same anti semitic views that most deniers have regarding the Jews running the whole show, so that’s why I am putting that question to you.
          But then again you may pretend you don’t hold such views, considering you are guesting on a Jew’s website, you wouldn’t want to upset your host would you?
          As for your assumed claim that the Zundel Trial was some sort of victory against the established, scholary historical community, man you really do live in denial . For one, Zundel, a bloke who writes books about Nazis flying round in UFO’s , who blacks his face up and carries a Christ like cross on his back as some form of ‘statement’, actually LOST his court battle. The book that the trial was all about, was full of horse-shit. Who else are you gonna claim as a victorious court room hero? David Irving??????? HaHa Sorry but he got smashed to f**k too, and was proven to be a racist and a liar.
          The reason I lump David Stole with Duke is so simple even an imbecile would understand : THEY ARE BOTH DENIERS!!!!!! DUHHHHHHH!
          Look mate, if you really are that thick, don’t bother replying , i’ll end up eating yer for breakfast.

          • Babidi says:

            > Oh sorry, have I missed something here ? Is expressing doubt about the holocaust ‘illegal’ in these countries too??

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

            Careful there, “mate,” you’ve given up free speech long ago. Wouldn’t want to offend me and wind up in jail. You will defend this.

            >that ‘Da Jews’ control the western world, especially good ol USA, then don’t you find it strange that out of all the countries that have these anti denial laws, that USA isn’t one of them??

            What if you were to take the stance scaly reptilians control the Western World, or the “Illuminati,” or patriarchal heterosexual Christian white males, or the banksters, or…

            What’s your fucking point, moron? Maybe it’s alien to a British fucktard like you, but in the U.S. of A we value free speech, whether we think it’s appropriate or not. All you’ve done is commit fallacy after fallacy. Ad hominem, shifting goalposts, and projecting. Fuck right off. You haven’t a leg to stand on, and you know it.

            • Arthur Crump says:

              Oh dear, I knew this would happen. Don’t tell me I didn’t warn you .

              First of all you try and disprove my claim that ‘expressing doubts about the holocaust’ is NOT illegal in the UK . You try and do this by putting up a link to Wikipedia that describes ‘Hate Speech Laws’ in the UK. Nowhere in this article does it claim that holocaust denial is illegal in the UK. PAHAHAHA ! You fucking dopey cunt. You’ve just gone and shown yourself up BIG TIME there!!!
              Secondly you fail to understand for the SECOND time my point about how strange it is that the countries people like you claim to be involved in the ‘Hoax’ ( that is the Holocaust Hoax in case you’re struggling to keep up) mainly USA and UK , do not have these anti-holocaust denial laws ( although you have tried to prove the UK has, but you ended up looking like a right 22 carat cunt) . Considering these 2 countries are ‘Israels biggest biyatches’, it’s very strange indeed.
              Thirdly, you again show yourself but this time as a hypocrite and a liar by moaning about my non existant ‘ad hominem’ attacks against you, then you retort with insults such as ‘moron’ and ‘British Fucktard’ which also proves your a racist.
              Oh dear, it don’t look too good for you on the PR front does it? Incompetent, thick, hypocrite, liar and a racist. Tut tut !! PAHAHAHAHA !!!

              • Babidi says:

                B-but you’re accusing revisionists of being anti-Semites, ergo, Holocaust revisionism = hate speech. Do you understand how your laws can be abused yet, mate?

                > Thirdly, you again show yourself but this time as a hypocrite and a liar by moaning about my non existant ‘ad hominem’ attacks against you, then you retort with insults such as ‘moron’ and ‘British Fucktard’ which also proves your a racist.

                Nothing racist about it. You ARE a British fucktard. Your slang implies that you’re British, and “fucktard” is simply a construct of “fucking” and “retard,” which you’ve demonstrated yourself to be by your failure to grasp your own god damn language.

                Time to accept it. You’ve effectively been bent over and spanked. I look forward to further basking in your tears, m8.

                • Arthur Crump says:

                  Sorry kid, but you tried to prove that holocaust denial is illegal in the UK, and you failed .

                  Consider your big fat American ass whooped .

                  But hey, go take a lie down for a bit to reflect on your humiliating loss. But please, whatever you do don’t do the typical American thing and reach for the 2 most cherished cabinets in your caravan, those being of the ‘gun’ and ‘drink’ variety. We don’t want yet another massacre at the local kindergarten . Nowotimsayin?

              • Bigpecker says:

                The Holocaust never happened !!!! NAH NAH NAH NAH NAH

                • Simon says:

                  Arthur, you have to be one of the worst debators I have ever had the displeasure to read. You lost all ‘standing/ground’ when you retorted to insults and naming calling…as if it were to strengthen your argument in some way.

                  Alas, I have to say, the same is said of Babidi too. If people just kept to debating facts and known facts and were able to debate without getting emotional…then…and only then…could any thread be conceived to be ‘credible’.

                  I am British and I have just spent the last 2days, 16hrs minimum, bringing myself up to speed on the subject that I came across by accident. I came across the Irving BBC interview in 2000, listened to it and thought, the BBC are very unfair and refused to engage in JI’s points. They wanted to keep the lid on JI.

                  That in itself made me inquisitive. Then I came across David Cole on the shows he was on. I was won over for one reason. DC presented factual information and asked questions. All people wanted to do was shout him down without answering ANY of his questions.

                  That in itself is a sure sign to any intelligent person that something is amiss. That made me go from UTube video to UTube video and now I fall in the ‘Revisionist’ camp…not because I am easily swayed but because the revisionists are the only ones presenting facts…facts that the apologists refuse to answer in any detail.

                  I look forward to DC’s book and further commentaries. I have to say though that DC was more articulate in the 1990’s than he appears today. The Vodka thing, albeit an ‘accessary’, isn’t really what new people to the argument want to see. The over indulgent ‘comedy’ lines too could be lessoned…however…thats just me.

                  I do not shoot the messenger, no matter their creed, colour or ‘standing’ in what we call society. I listen to the message…and does it resonate with me. I have to say…DC’s message does resonate with me.

                  His very own story shows beyond a doubt how other events are ‘covered’ up by the media, politicians etc and how the public can be used to herd themselves back into line. DC’s story, if you understand it deep enough, is almost a ‘template’ for other events that have happened. I would put 911 truther into that catagory and how 911 was used to go to war with Iraq and beyond.

                  The Jewish ‘leadership’ have used the Holocaust to advantage themselves for the last 50yrs. If you can’t see that…you really need to switch off the TV and read more!

                  So…I step off my soap box and get back to my education of the matters concerning the ‘revisionist’ point of view.

      • Gopal Iyer says:

        It does look like you need a little education.

  13. MadMan says:

    Who’s the asshole with the voice?

  14. Arthur Crump says:

    I know this isn’t exactly related to the subject in question but I can’t help think aloud about my regret that David Stole will never have his day in court where he could emulate his weird uncle, David Irving at the High Court in London in 2000.
    I’d pay good money ( as long as it didn’t exceed £10 ) to see him get smashed to f**k on the witness stand as he tries to prove there were no gas chambers in Auschwitz and how he would risk banishment from the Magic Circle as he reveals the secrets of the tricks the Germans used to make a few million Jews ‘disappear’ during World War 2.
    But ,judging by Mr Stole’s personality, ie attention seeking, vindictive and dependant on various frowned upon substances, especially cheap cider, then I fear such a heavy defeat may result in him finally cracking up, resulting in yet another ‘incident’ involving a sawn off shotgun, a school, a synagogue and approx. 30 innocent fat Americans queuing up outside a MacDonalds shithouse. And I for one, wouldn’t like to see that happen.

  15. Jeff says:

    Does anyone know how to get a hold of David? I would like to interview him on my radio show. The “Mike & Jeff” show on KLAV AM 1230 out of Las Vegas NV.

  16. Steven Stern says:

    Arthur Crump needs to stop with the late and learn some tolerance.

  17. Steven Stern says:

    Arthur Crump needs to stop with the hate and learn some tolerance. Hate, not late.

  18. Aservant says:

    It’s about time you had an update….I have been waiting and waiting…..but man, it was worth the wait!

    That was about as sound of an intellectual ass-whoopin’ that has ever been.

    It is soooooooo…….good to have you back on the scene David.

    Congratulations on your new-found role.

  19. Aservant says:

    And great that you now have comments here. Keep ‘em goin’.

  20. Jett Rucker says:

    The Holohoax is the mother of all conspiracy theories. And Shermer defends it!

  21. Gopal Iyer says:

    I love you, David!

  22. Greg Johnson says:

    Thanks to Zan for the link to David’s site and in particular this absolutely hysterical posting about that stooge Sherm-Sherm the skeptic of skepticism! I read Shermer-boy’s Debunking the Debunking booklet in a night and have never marked up pages more. It was a work of comedy, so at least Shermie has provided some comic relief for us too. David’s work as a revisionist certainly played a role in my learning process as I started my journey down the rabbit hole some years ago. It was very exciting to see the news of Cole’s outing last year, as that was the first time I had any word about his life since appearing on Donahue. I can’t wait to read the book that will arrive in a day or two! I’d like to suggest that the honest ones out there not let these childish trolls and other mindless individuals get the best of you and waste your time by replying to all if their baseless claims. That’s part of their game. Revisionism is extremely important in the process of searching for truth and justice. Let us all do our part to share that message with the masses. Thank you, David!

  23. Larry says:

    This is a series i did on the bizarre fake skeptic phenomenon where they defend everything the government does.
    http://youtu.be/0_YFmE66SLE

  24. Marcy Fleming says:

    As a Jew on Mom’s side who has lived in Israel I think the revisionists have the better of the argument.
    I asked several critical questions at Vad Vashem and they were unprepared to deal with them.
    I will order David’s book.
    The response by “Arthur Crump” and a few others of the True Believer persuasion reinforces the revisionist thesis.
    See Debating The Holocaust by Thomas Dalton, Ph.D for the best introduction to the subject.
    In most European countries holocaust revisionism is outlawed. Blair wanted to DO it in the UK but couldn’t quite get away with it. But some people in England have been imprisoned under the fascist ‘anti-racism’ laws because their revisionism was considered spreading hate against Jews. So there’s a very thin line here.

  25. John McGrath says:

    I’ve been wanting to strangle Shermer for some time. Watching him be totally humiliated is the next best thing I suppose. Thoroughly enjoyable. If you have the time, would you please respond to me. I’d like to talk to you about mainstreaming revisionism, your book is a great start, and also about another subject close to your heart, the future of the CRP. I know some people. And, yes, I’m aware of your fall from grace.

  26. Simon says:

    The ‘Spat’ between: Arthur Crump & Babidi – May 31, 2014…on the thread started by ‘Alphonso’ on 30th May

    Arthur, you have to be one of the worst debators I have ever had the displeasure to read. You lost all ‘standing/ground’ when you retorted to insults and naming calling…as if it were to strengthen your argument in some way.

    Alas, I have to say, the same is said of Babidi too. If people just kept to debating facts and known facts and were able to debate without getting emotional…then…and only then…could any thread be conceived to be ‘credible’.

    I am British and I have just spent the last 2days, 16hrs minimum, bringing myself up to speed on the subject that I came across by accident. I came across the Irving BBC interview in 2000, listened to it and thought, the BBC are very unfair and refused to engage in JI’s points. They wanted to keep the lid on JI.

    That in itself made me inquisitive. Then I came across David Cole on the shows he was on. I was won over for one reason. DC presented factual information and asked questions. All people wanted to do was shout him down without answering ANY of his questions.

    That in itself is a sure sign to any intelligent person that something is amiss. That made me go from UTube video to UTube video and now I fall in the ‘Revisionist’ camp…not because I am easily swayed but because the revisionists are the only ones presenting facts…facts that the apologists refuse to answer in any detail.

    I look forward to DC’s book and further commentaries. I have to say though that DC was more articulate in the 1990′s than he appears today. The Vodka thing, albeit an ‘accessary’, isn’t really what new people to the argument want to see. The over indulgent ‘comedy’ lines too could be lessoned…however…thats just me.

    I do not shoot the messenger, no matter their creed, colour or ‘standing’ in what we call society. I listen to the message…and does it resonate with me. I have to say…DC’s message does resonate with me.

    His very own story shows beyond a doubt how other events are ‘covered’ up by the media, politicians etc and how the public can be used to herd themselves back into line. DC’s story, if you understand it deep enough, is almost a ‘template’ for other events that have happened. I would put 911 truther into that catagory and how 911 was used to go to war with Iraq and beyond.

    The Jewish ‘leadership’ have used the Holocaust to advantage themselves for the last 50yrs. If you can’t see that…you really need to switch off the TV and read more!

    So…I step off my soap box and get back to my education of the matters concerning the ‘revisionist’ point of view.

  27. Truthseeker says:

    Only the Truth shall set us free. I have ordered the book and may you prosper Mr Colestein ;)
    (may as well put old and new names together)

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